18XX - where to start?

Boardgames
83

Operating Round 3 - a.k.a. the beginning of the middle of the end

Full OR 3 Log 
-- Operating Round 3.1 (of 1) --
Name1ess collects ¥5 from Takamatsu E-Railroad
pillbox collects ¥5 from Mitsubishi Ferry
mr.ister collects ¥10 from Ehime Railway
RogerBW collects ¥15 from Sumitomo Mines Railway
Name1ess collects ¥15 from Dougo Railway
pillbox collects ¥20 from South Iyo Railway
mr.ister collects ¥30 from Uno-Takamatsu Ferry
RogerBW operates IR
IR spends ¥80 and lays tile #8 with rotation 1 on E4
IR runs a 2 train for ¥50 (E2, F1)
IR pays out ¥50 = ¥5 x 10 shares
RogerBW receives ¥15 = ¥5 x 3 shares
pillbox receives ¥5 = ¥5 x 1 shares
Name1ess receives ¥5 = ¥5 x 1 shares
IR's share price changes from ¥75 to ¥80
-- Phase 3 (Operating Rounds: 2, Train Limit: 4, Available Tiles: Yellow, Green ) --
IR buys a 3 train for ¥180 from The Depot
IR buys Sumitomo Mines Railway from RogerBW for ¥100
IR finishes buying trains
IR skips buying companies
pillbox operates TR
TR lays tile #57 with rotation 1 on H7
TR skips placing a token
TR runs a 2 train for ¥60 (G10, F9)
TR runs a 2 train for ¥50 (G12, G10)
TR runs a 2 train for ¥50 (H7, F9)
TR pays out ¥160 = ¥16 x 10 shares
RogerBW receives ¥32 = ¥16 x 2 shares
pillbox receives ¥64 = ¥16 x 4 shares
Name1ess receives ¥16 = ¥16 x 1 shares
mr.ister receives ¥48 = ¥16 x 3 shares
TR's share price changes from ¥70 to ¥75
TR buys a 3 train for ¥180 from The Depot
TR buys Mitsubishi Ferry from pillbox for ¥60
TR finishes buying companies
Name1ess operates AR
AR spends ¥80 and lays tile #9 with rotation 0 on K6
AR runs a 2 train for ¥40 (K8, L7)
AR runs a 2 train for ¥50 (K8, K4)
AR pays out ¥90 = ¥9 x 10 shares
RogerBW receives ¥9 = ¥9 x 1 shares
Name1ess receives ¥27 = ¥9 x 3 shares
mr.ister receives ¥18 = ¥9 x 2 shares
AR's share price changes from ¥65 to ¥70
AR buys a 3 train for ¥180 from The Depot
AR finishes buying trains
AR skips buying companies

This is probably a good OR to break down and look at what’s happened.

First, Private Companies paid:

Name1ess collects ¥5 from Takamatsu E-Railroad
pillbox collects ¥5 from Mitsubishi Ferry
mr.ister collects ¥10 from Ehime Railway
RogerBW collects ¥15 from Sumitomo Mines Railway
Name1ess collects ¥15 from Dougo Railway
pillbox collects ¥20 from South Iyo Railway
mr.ister collects ¥30 from Uno-Takamatsu Ferry

As you can see, Name1ess collects a total of ¥20, RogerBW ¥15, mr.ister ¥40 and myself ¥25. These amounts have been the same in the last 2 Operating Rounds as well.

Next, corporations take turn in Market Price order; first up is the IR (¥75). Because RogerBW is the Director of IR, RogerBW (and only RogerBW) gets to make all the decisions for IR.

RogerBW operates IR

Next up: Lay Track. A vast majority of the 1889 map has tile laying costs of ¥80 which must be paid out of the corporation’s funds (and not the player’s).

IR spends ¥80 and lays tile #8 with rotation 1 on E4

No token was laid (interesting that the game log doesn’t explicitly mention it).

IR runs a 2 train for ¥50 (E2, F1)

Then, IR runs its 2-train for a revenue of ¥50. It then opts to pay out dividends (as opposed to withholding). All players holding shares of IR will receive a proportional share of the total revenue; RogerBW owned 30%, so he is paid 30% of ¥50, or ¥15.

IR pays out ¥50 = ¥5 x 10 shares
RogerBW receives ¥15 = ¥5 x 3 shares
pillbox receives ¥5 = ¥5 x 1 shares
Name1ess receives ¥5 = ¥5 x 1 shares

Because shareholders were paid at least ¥1, IR’s Market Price will move one space to the right, here it moves from ¥75 to ¥80, but the actual value increase is situational based on where the token is on the market board.

IR's share price changes from ¥75 to ¥80

Here’s the important thing to talk about: IR buys a 3-train – we are now in Phase 3. Green tiles are now available and starting after the next Stock Market round, we will do two Operating Rounds back-to-back instead of just one.

-- Phase 3 (Operating Rounds: 2, Train Limit: 4, Available Tiles: Yellow, Green ) --
IR buys a 3 train for ¥180 from The Depot

Because we are now in Phase 3, Corporations will be able to buy private companies (I’ve talked about this before, but just know it’s the fastest way to suck cash out of a company’s coffers)

IR buys Sumitomo Mines Railway from RogerBW for ¥100

And then some housecleaning items takes us to the end of the IR operating turn.

IR finishes buying trains
IR skips buying companies
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84

I’m finding the interface an odd mix of prompts and lack-of-prompts. I also specifically wanted IR to buy that private to get the mountain building bonus (oh did it make me some money, what a coincidence), and I knew that it became possible after the first 3-train had been bought, but all I got prompted to do was lay tiles and run trains.

(Not that I’d planned to lay a token anyway this time, but it’s a thing I want to remember.)

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85

Ahh, well I guess I should have mentioned before: different companies have different numbers of tokens they are allowed to place.

So the interface may not prompt you if there’s no valid choice (you are out of tokens or you’ve already placed a token everywhere you are able to)

86

OK, I’m afraid I feel a need for rules advice here.

I could put track into D5, linking Matsuyama (IR) to Ohzu (UR). What would that to do the two companies’ ability to run trains between the two places? Both companies can run, neither can run, what?

ETA: as far as I can see it’s “both companies can run” as far as a city that’s blocked by another railway’s token.

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87

Both companies could run a single train each on the track between Matsuyama and Ohzu; if you encounter a city that has no free token spaces and no token of that company, you cannot run through the city, but you may terminate your route there and include it in the revenue calculation.

88

OK, that makes sense. Thanks.

89

General question to @Name1ess and @RogerBW: would you like some strategic advice on certain moves or would you prefer to figure the strategy part out on your own?

90

I think I am happy to receive advice. At the moment my feeling about the game is “I can see some of what’s going on here and I like it, but to get actually competent at it will take a lot of time that I’m not prepared to give”.

1 Like
91

The (very) non-serious reply is that I and my team here at Name1ess HQ are working hard on our wining strategy…

Name1essHQ

...

Sorry I’m trying to learn how to use GIMP at the moment and as the saying goes, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing!

The serious reply has a number of parts. The first is that when I play a new medium or heavy game I don’t expect to win, in fact if I do then that’s a black mark against that game. My aim is to not embarrass myself and enjoy the experience. So while I’m not sure about the first goal, I’m definitely accomplishing the second :grinning:

The second factor is that I learn best by doing and occasionally screwing up. I’ve watched videos, read this and other threads and gone over the rule book numerous times, but it all felt quite dry and theoretical. Its only been by playing and then going back to the various sources have I had those satisfying ‘A-ha’ moment where things have clicked into place.

Finally, I’m always a bit hesitate to ask for help unless I’m really stuck because I feel it puts undue pressure on the advice giver and may in the worst case force them to act against their own best interest.

In summary, thank you for the offer but I think I’m OK; I have a strategy in mind and I’m in the process of executing it. Hopefully it doesn’t land me in fourth place, but if it does then that’s fine. Going forward, if I’m invited to a second game I will jump at the chance and I’ll look to do better.

2 Likes
92

Perfect! Sorry for the delay!

93

It’s probably simpler to stick with no advice for either of us, then; certainly I’m playing more to find out how this thing works than with any realistic hope of winning.

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94

Allow me to preface what I’m about to say:

I am a n00b. But, as is my wont, I throw my brain 150% into new, exciting things (up until they start to bore me; so far 18xx seems to be insurmountable in its depth [let’s ignore that I used “insurmountable” to describe “depth”]). I’ve played a summed total of 1 full game of 18xx (1889, against forum member EnterTheWyvern and his friend), if you don’t count me honing my understanding of the game by playing the MS DOS edition of 1830 that is freely available upon yonder intarwebwebweb. I own several 18xx games (1830: Railways and Robber Barons, 18CZ, 18Lilliput*, Poseidon†, City of the Big Shoulders‡, 1862: Railway Mania in the Eastern Counties, 1844, 1854, 18Chesapeake… and more on the way through various channels) but have not played any of them. I have, however, read the rulebooks of each of them and feel that I understand the game to some degree.

*: Tenuous membership in the 18xx family
†: Even more tenuous membership in the 18xx family
‡: So tenuous that it has been removed from the 18xx family on BGG.

I am balancing “let’s do interesting things so people can see all the levers that can be pulled” with “this is too much to grok all at once, let’s slow things down.”

So, that said, if you see me doing something and you don’t understand why, please do not hesitate to ask me to explain!

I am trying not to be too cutthroat.

18xx is a genre defined by its “gotchas” and sharp edges – almost to the point that I feel the culture around 18xx is, by definition, a gatekeeping one or, in the least, one rank with the odor of elitism and snobbery. That said, the sub-genre is, surprisingly, very inviting to newcomers; I suppose the community feels the games are harsh and mean enough that they, the community, don’t need to be – and quite so: show me a 18xx community (that is public-facing on the interweb) and I’ll show you a group of people always up for on-boarding new players (with varying degrees of patience).

However, the fastest way to learn to not touch a hot stove is to touch a hot stove, after all. I can certainly turn up the heat, as far as the trickery of 18xx goes. That said: it’s not really my playing style. I prefer (I think!) the style of 18xx games that focus on building good companies (and sometimes helping your “opponent’s” companies because it also helps you) and running them as well as you can – only to tally up the stacks of cash at the end to see who’s won.

2 Likes
95

The keen-eyed among you may have noticed I’m buying a lot of shares in Name1ess’s new corporation, KO. That’s because I wanted to start the KO this turn.

I’ll tip my hand a bit for the sake of pedagogy: I’m prepared to sell a share in TR in order to purchase a 5th share in KO, provided Name1ess doesn’t liquidate a share themselves in order to get the 5th one first.

If Name1ess buys a share in KO, I’m likely to sell off all of my shares in KO in order to re-invest that money somewhere else.

This puts Name1ess (unfortunately, I wish it was mr.ister so it didn’t feel like I was picking on one of the new players) in the position of:

  • Buy up to the 50% mark necessary to prevent me taking control, but know that by selling the 40% I already have, I’m going to tank the Stock Market price of KO down to ¥60. This also means that Name1ess would sell a share in a different company in order to afford to do this.
  • Hold steady at 40% and wait to see what I do after taking control of KO.
  • Bail out of KO; it’s possible to sell every KO share currently held by Name1ess to the Bank Pool and transfer Directorship to me. This would tank the KO share down to ¥60 as well.

Bank Pool Limits

This brings up a good point that I haven’t mentioned before. I’ve already talked about how the Director’s share can never be sold to the Bank Pool; instead, if you sell down your holdings to the point that somebody else is holding more than you, you exchange the Director’s Share with them.

If nobody else is holding at least 20%, it’s not possible to rid yourself of the Director’s Share. This is why it’s always safe to hold 10% of a corporation but if you hold 20% or more, you may get saddled with a bankrupt corp that you are now solely responsible for.

Here’s the new info: There can be no more than 5 shares in the Bank Pool of any given company

If there are already 4 shares of a company in the Bank Pool, you are allowed to sell 1, but no more. The only way to sell more shares is if somebody else buys a Bank Pool share, thus allowing new shares to be sold to the Bank.

1 Like
96 
Name1ess sells 1 share TR and receives ¥75
TR's share price changes from ¥75 to ¥70
Name1ess buys a 10% share of KO from the IPO for ¥80

Perfectly played (in my opinion)! By selling off a share of TR, it further limits my ability to liquidate cash and Name1ess was able to solidify control of the KO.

1 Like
97

@pillbox I absolutely don’t think that your picking on me and neither should anyone else. As you’ve said above 18xx is a game of ‘sharp edges’ and given the size of the map we’re playing on one or more of us were always going to be in competition about something sooner rather than later.

With regard to KO, from my point of view floating and then controlling it is a big part of my current strategy, which should be obvious from my pursuit of it. I have to say that at first I was pleased when someone else started buying the shares - I thought that this might be part of a ‘finger in every pie’ approach. However I soon realised that I was in a foot race for the Directorship and that brought with it the real risk of the stocks getting dumped at some point. As we play out this stock round I’m hopeful that this doesn’t happen but I’m prepared for it if it does.

2 Likes
98

I think I’m mostly following what’s going on. However…

In the current OR, KO (Name1ess) is operating, but UR (mr.ister) is also bolded. Any reason for that?

(My attitude has shifted from “I’ll finish this game” to “maaaaybe I might play again”…)

1 Like
99

May be a glitch in the UI scripts. I don’t see UR bolded. Screenshot?

100

Sorry, didn’t take one.

That operation ended with “UR discards 3”, since when it’s not bolded, which may be relevant.

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101

As soon as the first 5-train gets bought we enter phase 5. From here on no company is allowed to own more than two trains. This rule is enforced immediately. That’s why as soon as the KO bought the first 5-train its turn was paused until I discarded one of the three trains I had in the UR.

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102

Aha! Thanks - that’s what it was.