18XX - where to start?

Ya gotta spend money to make money.

There’s no reason to hold back spending here; you can always get most of your money back by selling any shares you buy later (this is a bit nuanced and I will write up more about it when we get to operating)

Let’s talk briefly about it now:

Any shares you buy in the first Stock Market round will lose money if the company operates.

Because of how Operating Rounds work (and I’ll get into specifics later), the first Operating Round that a corporation operates in is guaranteed to lower the stock market price for that corporation’s shares.

“Okay, then, pillbox, why should I buy shares?” you ask. Well, you don’t have to. In a 4-player game, it’s possible to play the “shrewd investor” strategy and never operate your own corporation, instead investing in the corporations of your opponents – this is an advanced strategy and is certainly worth exploring.

However, (and here’s the rub) the vast majority of the money you will make over the course of the game will come from shares held in corporations – and shares are a limited resource in this game. You need at least 50% of a corporation to be sold in order for it to operate; and you need at least two Operating Rounds for that corporations to actually start making money. And the number of Operating Rounds we are going to play is going to be a finite number.

The key here is to invest. Theoretically, if you want to sit on cash for the first couple of Operating Rounds until you get more value for your IPO share purchases, you could, but by not floating a corporation for yourself, you’re paying an opportunity cost for that corporation to take Operating Round turns.

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So one might say that the ideal company for profiting off operating rounds is one that I control and everyone else has capitalised a bit less… except that they may then take it over.

Early on, you want other people to buy your companys’ shares to help you Float it.

Later on, if your company is doing well, you want to hold as many of its shares as you can and you want your opponents to hold as little of it as possible.

So let’s look a little closer at what happens when a company Floats. In 1889, I think it happens when the 4th certificate is bought from the IPO (50% held by players or in the bank pool; the rulebook is not clear on this if you ask me), it may be the 5th certificate (60%). Either way, let’s look at the numbers:

Let’s say you Parred a company at ¥70. In order to Float it, 50% of the company will need to be sold from the IPO, that sums to ¥350 (out of the pocket of players and into the Bank).

As soon as it Floats (and I don’t see this covered anywhere in the 1889 Rulebook but it’s absolutely the case), the company receives 100% of it’s initial capital, which is ten times its Par price; in this case ¥700 out of the Bank and into the corporation’s available funds.

We just manufactured free money! You (and possibly your opponents) spent ¥350 and turned it into ¥700.

“Wait, pillbox, what’s the victory condition in this game again?” you ask. Why, yes, it’s money.

“Okay, so when does the game end?” you inquire. When the Bank runs out of money.

So, if you are in the lead, you want to drain money out of the Bank as fast as possible. If you are not in the lead, you probably want to figure out how to get into the lead while simultaneously holding back whomever is winning. We’ll talk about this a bit more as well later.

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I just want to thank @pillbox for the absolutely fabulous job (at least from my perspective) he’s doing introducing the game to the new players!

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I want to second this, it’s really really helpful!

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This thread is not just about our current game, right?

Has anybody played 1824? Any experiences with the two player map? I’m tempted to get this as an addon in the 1840 plaedge manager.

I have 1824 from the original KS. It’s going to be my first played game in person. So I’ve not got any experience of playing. Things it has going for it in my eyes are the starting of companies isn’t an auction so there’s maybe less ’gotcha’ potential at the start. The multiple train types look interesting and it’s less brutal on the stockmarket messing up companies which I’m keen to see what that’s like. Finally as 18xx games go it’s got a luxury production. Even compared to the AAG mass produced games the components in 1824 just feel satisfying to use. The wooden tokens are big, the charters look good, the tiles with the fade look smart.

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I’m picking it up as an addon in the pledge manager… But I really don’t know much about the game or why it’s different/interesting.

Are you “saving” it to be your first in-person xx? Just curious if you’ve looked at doing a 3-hand solitaire playthrough to get a feel for the game or if you’d rather to go in blind.

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I’

I’m saving it. I don’t like to do solo run throughs. I’m not keen on solitaire play but more importantly I don’t want to start with too much more knowledge than the people I’ll play with.

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A position I certainly understand. The reason I ask is that 1824 looks like it has a number of interesting mechanisms but, for the life of me, I cannot get a grip on them by reading the rulebook. I’ve also noticed a good deal of questions on BGG about the Mountain, Coal and Pre-Staatsbahnen railroads closing (or converting?).

That said, I would be much more likely to gain a comfort with it if I had the physical game in front of me (I’m a kinesthetic learner, after all).

I think some of the questions on BGG are heavily influenced by, perhaps, a weak translation from the designer’s native German into English (which he seems to have a good grasp on, conversationally at least, when I’ve seen him post online). So, perhaps, if you or a friend are fluent in German, learning (or at least clarifying rules) from the German rulebook may be superior.

I watched a bit of the Boardgame Informant play through to work out what was going on with them. But actually it was quite easy to work the gist out. I think it was explicit in the rules but bgg was helpful to find out what was a translation error.

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We did it! We did a thing! A Train Thing!

Operating Rounds, how do they work?

You may have noticed, those of you playing in our game, that we have completed an Operating Round! To be technical and precise, we completed an Set of Operating Rounds that consisted of a single Operating Rounds. Later in the game, based on what “Phase” we are in, we will complete Sets of 2 ORs and eventually Sets of 3 ORs between Stock Rounds.

Phases

The game occurs in Phases. We begin the game in “Phase 2” (no, that is not a typo). The Phase number in this (and many 18xx) game is based on the number on of the last train bought (except at the beginning of the game that just arbitrarily states that you begin in Phase 2 with 2-trains available).

The Phase we are in has a lot of impact to the game. As we progress through phases, things happen. A change of phase will occur when a new type of train is bought – more on that later.

For the moment, we are in Phase 2, that means (in 1889):

  • Yellow Tiles are available, but not Green or Russet (brown)
  • A company can have up to 4 trains
  • We perform 1 Operating Round per Set of Operating Rounds

The Anatomy of an Operating Round

In Stock Rounds, we, the players, took turns taking actions. In Operating Rounds, the corporations take turns; each corporation’s turn will be taken by its Director/President. The order in which corporations take their turns is based on their Stock Market price – the highest goes first, ties between same-valued-spaces on the Stock Market are broken right-to-left, ties between tokens on the same space are broken first-to-last to be on that space (the token that’s been on the space the longest will go first).

Privates

The first thing we do in an OR is Pay the Privates. Each of the private companies that was auctioned off at the start of the game pays whomever or whatever owns it; at the moment, it’s just players – in the future, corporations may own a private company; in that case, the corporation will receive the revenue of that private.

Corporations

Afterwards, all of the corporations that have Floated will take a turn in highest-to-lowest turn order. The Director of that company will do the following things in the following order:

  • (Optional) Lay Track, which means one of:
    a. Place a Yellow Tile on a beige/empty map hex, paying any cost printed on the board
    b. Upgrade a Yellow Tile to a Green Tile, paying any cost printed on the Yellow Tile
    c. Upgrade a Green Tile to a Russet Tile, paying any cost printed on the Green Tile
  • Place a Token:
    a. On a Corporation’s first turn, it must place its Home Token. This does not count for the company’s Token action.
    b. (Optional) Place a token in an empty Station. The Corporation must be able to trace a path (of any length) from the Corporation’s Home Station to the newly Tokened Station
  • Operate Trains – We’ll talk more about this a bit later
  • Pay or Withhold Revenue
    a. To Pay Revenue, each share held by a Player is paid dividends: 10% of the total Revenue generated by the Operate Trains step. Additionally, shares of the company in the Bank Pool (not the IPO) pay dividends to the corporation’s charter. If a company pays more than ¥0, its Stock Market token moves Right 1 space.
    b. To Withhold Revenue, the corporation retains 100% of the revenue generated by the Operate Trains step and it is placed in the funds available to that corporation.
    c. In either case: if shareholders were paid ¥0 (either by withholding or by not generating revenue), the Stock Market token for the corporation moves Left 1 space.
  • Buy Trains:
    a. A corporation may buy a train for face value from the IPO. Only the cheapest available train may be purchased; i.e. if there is a 2 train available, you may not elect to buy a 3 train. If the last 2 train has been purchased, then 3 trains become available. Phase changes occur when a new train is bought, not when it becomes available for purchase.
    b. Later in the game, we’ll see how sometimes a corporation may be forced to discard a train; these trains go to the Bank Pool. If, for some reason, there are multiple types of trains available in the Bank Pool, any of them may be purchased at face value. (buying from the Bank Pool is fairly rare in 1889)
    c. A corporation can buy a train from another corporation. And they can do it for any amount. It must be at least ¥1 but there is no upper limit, as long as the buying company can afford it. The Directors of both Corporations must agree to the amount. 99.9% of the time, this is performed between two companies that are controlled by the same Director. Specifically 1889 has a degenerate gamestate that often occurs that sometimes requires two different directors to collude – we’ll talk about that another day.
    d. If a corporation has a valid route, it MUST own a train. If no valid route exists for the corporation, train buying is optional. If the company cannot afford any train available (and remember, you can buy a train from another company for ¥1, assuming the other company is willing), the Director Must Supplement The Corporation’s Funds in order to buy the cheapest available option from the IPO or the Bank Pool (none of the Director’s funds can be used to purchase a train from another corporation). If necessary, the Director will be forced to sell Shares (more on this later) to fund the purchase of the train. If the Director cannot raise enough funds, that player is Bankrupt and the game ends immediately.

And then, finally, at any point during a Corporation’s Operation, assuming we’re in Phase 3 or later, a corporation may buy in any private company. The owner of the private company must agree to the transaction (again, usually this is the Corporatioin buying its Director’s privates; not technically required but almost universally the case). The amount paid by the corporation to the owner of the private can be anywhere between half to twice the marked Value of the private (Pv * x, where x >= 0.5 and x <= 2)

An important note about train buying:

Trains are only bought, they are never sold. Meaning you cannot transfer a train to another company on the “selling” corporation’s turn.


Later on in the game, we’ll see how turn order for corporations can change even within a single Set of Operating Rounds due to token movement on the Stock Market.

Running Trains (but not Jogging Trains)

What would a train game be without trains? (Why, that would be Power Grid, but that’s another subject altogether).

So you’ve got yourself some track and a train or two (or three, or four). 1889 is, thankfully, a stock standard 18xx run-your-trains style (other games make it complicated, looking at you, 1862!). There are a few key points:

  • A valid route consists of at least 2 revenue locations (Cities - large circles, towns - black squres/dots, off-board hexes - red tiles)

  • Every train must touch a Station Token of the corporation for which it is running

  • Every train may run any number of hexes but may not extend beyond a number of Revenue Locations as the Train’s Number. A 2 train may only run between two revenue locations. A 3 train may run through a revenue location and terminate at either end at a 2nd and 3rd.

  • A city with no empty stations may not be run through unless one of the corporation’s tokens in present in the city. That is: if a corporation has placed a token in a city, it cannot be “tokened out” and will be guaranteed to be able to run through a city. If a corporation is “tokened out” of a city, it may still terminate a route at that city and count its revenue. Additionally, if there is an unoccupied Station on a city, any route by any corporation can run through that city.

  • “Off-board” hexes may not be run through - they must be one of the endpoints of any route they are included in.

  • No track may be reused, either by the same train or by a different one. This only applies to each Corporation’s turn; two different corporations can use the same track. An easier way to think about this stipulation is “no hex edge can be crossed more than once in a corporation’s operating turn”.

  • For the purposes of the previous rule, a city with 4 or more connections in/out of it still can only be ran through once (consider the city itself to be a tile edge)

  • Different Trains may count the same revenue location each.

  • A route’s revenue is the sum of all the revenue value of all locations served by the route

  • A Corporation’s Revenue is the sum of all of its trains’ routes’ revenue i.e. sum the numbers

It looks very complicated! But I assure you with a little practice, it’ll become second nature.

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Some questions about game 1574:

Let’s say I want actually to make some profit with IR. Does Matsuyama-Imabari count as a valid route that a train can run on?

Presumably the same train cannot then run on to Saijou because Imabari is a junction which prevents reversing?

If I want to sell my private Sumitomo Mines Railway to IR so that IR gets the cheaper mountain building, when does that happen?

Yes, you need at least two locations that generate revenue, which is the case here.

Correct.

As soon as we hit Phase 3 which starts when the first 3-train gets bought. You can see this under the Trains/Phases tab, next to the green tiles.

It might be important to know that you can buy companies on the same actual turn you buy the 3-train. So for example if pillbox decides to purchase the 3-train with TR on his turn - which he absolutely could because no 2-trains are left and TR has enough money - he could have TR buy one or both of his privates immediately after. After that we would go to the next SR (the step from one to two ORs only happens after the next SR), meaning the AR and the IR won’t be able to purchase privates until the next operating phase. Pillbox on the other hand has now some cash on hand which he can invest again during the SR.
One thing to consider is how much money you want to get for your private and when is the right time to sell. Usually - please correct me if I’m wrong, pillbox - you would want to get the maximum which is twice the face value of the private (so you could sell Sumitomo Mines Railway for up to Y100 to your company). If pillbox would buy the 3-train the company would have Y190 left in their treasury, so he wouldn’t have enough money to buy both privates for the maximum amount (Y60 and Y160). But remember privates pay you (the player) every OR. So to maximize your value you might want to wait a couple of rounds before you sell (but don’t wait too long because privates just disappear as soon as the first 5-train gets bought). On the other hand, maybe if you sold now you could reinvest and generate even more interest? And now we’re playing an 18XX :slight_smile:

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Oh and one thing I found pretty helpful when I played my first game on 18xx.games is that in the Tools section you can clone a game. This opens a copy in hotseat mode just for you where the actual game is not affected but you can mess around with the current game state. That way you can try out what happens if you do X or Y.

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Generally, yes. Companies are not pets – take as much as you can out of them; worst case scenario the company is going to need a train it can’t afford, the director at that time can help buy one. So you could ditch the company, making it someone else’s problem, or pay it out of pocket, being that money from buying the privates invested in prior rounds should have already yielded profits.

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Or even start a new company and start shuffling money around.

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Not sure what the deal is but I’m not always getting email notifications when game #1574 is waiting on me.

You don’t get an email if you have the website open. For me this it true even if I haven’t closed the tab on my phnoe. Maybe that’s it?

Yeah, I think I had read that somewhere so I’ve been pretty careful about not leaving a tab open. It would be nice to be able to audit what the site sees as far as having the site open.