It is such a great time to be alive
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My BBG mini review of MLEM
SPIEL 2023. pretty good push your luck dice game by Knizia with an incredibly cute cat theme. Might buy when it becomes available in shops. It was sold out on Saturday afternoon or I might have jumped immediately. In the game one person is the captain each round. This person gets to roll dice to see how far the rocket flies. Every player puts one of his 8 cats in the rocket and off they go. Dice have 1, 2, 3, 4 and Flame symbols on it, with 2 being no there twice. You begin each flight with 8 dice I think. Which dice you can use depends on the spot the rocket is in. It shows which numbers are available and if Flames can be used and how many steps each Flame is worth. Flames are great because if you use them you get to keep the dice. All other dice are taken out of the pool after use. Also if you use a number you have to use ALL the dice that show that number. You then add all the numbers of all the dice you want to use and that’s how far the rocket flies. If the rocket ends the turn next to a moon or a planet, players–starting with the Captain–can decide that their cat wants to stay. You get more points for moons and planets further up (obviously) but if the rocket crashes, your cat returns home and you get no points. You crash if you ever roll no matches for the spot you are in. With an ever shrinking dicepool this is almost inevitable unless everyone decides it is enough. The game ends either after the rocket crashed 11 times or when one player has placed all 8 cats on moons, planets or in the galaxy. The cats have different abilities, like the cat that can get out +/-1 spot higher lower. Or the cat that can provide a single “1” die once, or the sabotage cat that takes a dice with them when they get out or the cat with the satellite that starts the rocket a few spaces further along the track… I am assuming that there is a solid mathy model under the cute space agency so there is some strategy and not just random luck pushing going on. Crashing is fun though. And so is sabotage.
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I’m generally not that fussed on the good doctor’s games. I own 1 and I’ve only played it once. I had and sold Modern Art, the left right binding as previously mentioned soured me on it. I quite like Blue Lagoon but the scoring was too complex. It worked well but the scoring made the game so long to teach that I clicked it. Tigris and Pots survives because it’s amazing but every so often I wobble about owning it as I just haven’t played it.
There’s something about his designs that don’t jive with me. There’s something I find that maybe too mathematical and cold. I like a theme less optimization puzzle but even then these are too fun gone for me. I just let any news of his new games wash over me. Also I don’t get the enthusiasm for Quest for El Dorado. Found it straight forward and boring. Played one game with experienced players, saw what was what and one the second game by a board. Just seems straightforward and uninteresting. I would try Stephenson’s Rocket if an enthusiast brought it round to play.
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Vasel’s Law definitely works on any non-IP Knizia game. IP-based games are a different breed, typically, but I would also not write them off as Knizia loves to rehash his games – but often when re-theming or changing the setting, the mechanisms will not be left unfettled.
Tigris & Euphrates, High Society, and Modern Art are the ones I’ve played that I’m aware of, and they are good.
While I’m happy owning these games, I’m not motivated to seek out more, so he’s not in my top bestest best designer list.
Easy list for me, I have played only High Society, which I love. There’s something in it borrowed (no idea if accidentally or not, probably accidentally) from a trick taking game I love (it’s Spanish, La Pocha) where you also try and win but not the most.
So far it is my favourite. I have always felt very intrigued by Through the Desert, and was high on my list pre-pandemic. Somehow since my collection has grown and the game was not easy to get to here in NZ, it has been left out a bit.
No idea. I can think of a few reasons, main one being his main games have an age already and BGG has a tendency to hype newer games
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It seems that Knizia is my favourite designer, I have 37 of his game, more than any other designer. Favourite has to be Ra, I have two copies of it (obviously I picked up the recent reprint). No idea what the first would have been.
He definitely deserves to have something in the top 100.
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Imma just collapse this so no one feels obligated to read it.
On Knizia tile layers
This topic seems to come up periodically on Reddit. I tend to liken it to Scotch. If you are just making a home bar and need a Scotch in there, maybe Johnnie Walker black. It’s affordable and universal. If you want it to be something nice, maybe Tallisker 10, a middle-of-the-road one that’s a little smooth, a little peaty, that gives you a feel for the larger universe. But most people only need one or two bottles of scotch.
Now, if you are a scotch person, then yeah, there’s so much to go for. Something smokey, something sweet, something smooth. Something expensive for special occasions, something cheap for large crowds, etc.
I have a lot of scotch and a lot of Knizia tile layers. Maybe at some point I’ll focus down on just the few that I keep coming back to, but for now I really enjoy the subtle changes in flavor.
And they are both subtle and changes. Another thing I tend to harp on is how Matt Leacock can keep changing dozens of rules and end up with essentially the same game (Forbidden Pandemic pt 23). Knizia (and Chudyk, for that matter), can make a game that you think is going to be identical to something you already have, only to play it and find out that a few flaps of a butterfly wing across the manual have taken you to an alternate universe.
Tigris & Euphrates: Most everyone knows this one and has an opinion, so there isn’t much to say. SVWAG commented on how it is a rare tile-layer where the interior of the filled regions (“old tiles”) continue to matter throughout the game. SU&SD commented on the opportunities to see and play “a fine move” that transforms the game state in unexpected ways. I love the emergent game play. Place a tile or move a leader - that’s about it. Resolve a conflict or place a monument if your turn triggered the opportunity. It is absolutely wild how much game, how much opportunity comes out of that slender needle or support.
Yellow & Yangtze / Huang: After playing, I think the changes here come down to two things: Monuments and ties. Monuments take only three tiles to build, don’t flip their supporting tiles, and can be destroyed or moved. Ties go to the attacker rather than the defender. Yes, there are other changes but those two I think define what sets Y&Y apart. I have it, but I find whenever I play one of these two I get worse at the other, so much is similar but what defines “good play” diverges too much. There is room in a collection for both, but I don’t know if there is room to be good at both? Y&Y may hit the road one day. Good game, just doesn’t get along with it’s big sibling.
Babylonia: I can’t decide what to do with this game. It’s the one I would probably call the “Johnnie Walker Black” of the collection. Route building, encirclement, four subgames you have to pay attention to. Most Knizia’s get better with repeat visits. Babylonia seems to get a bit more stale with each visit? At the same time, I haven’t gotten to play it with the same players repeatedly, and that may be what it needs. It’s something of a magnum opus in terms of simplicity and pulling together traits of everything else, but I’m still deciding how good it is (or isn’t).
Blue Lagoon: Did NOT like my first game. Loved my second game (repeat group). Did NOT like my third game (new players again). I think this game isn’t what you expect. First time players tend to focus on connecting islands and making chains, which is just an inefficient way to score here. Once the game shifts to grabbing resource tokens, the pressure turns up to 11 as everyone is racing to grab them and balance all the other sub-goals before that primary focus closes the round out. This is another one I’m not sure about longevity, but I’m still in the “it has legs” portion of the life-cycle so we’re good for now.
Through the Desert: Haven’t played. Backed today. Now I’m down to 6 games I’m allowed to buy in the next 10 months. I’ve been waiting for this one for a long time.
Samurai: Another “wildly disappointing first experience” game. I bought the first edition ding & dent from funagain, back when they were the only show in town. I still regret saving those $5 for my torn box. I played again after 20 years and in the intervening time played a lot of Neuroshima Hex digitally. Learned about controlling empty space, soft power, placing tokens to create pressure rather than accomplish objectives, etc. When I came back to Samurai and deployed all those lessons, it really blew me away. Also it was 2 player when I revisited it, and I appreciated knowing the exact count of trophies - so I’m migrating to the “open scoring” camp (at least for experienced players).
I wish my box wasn’t torn.
I’ll insert Pollen / Samurai Card Game here as well, which I have but have not yet played.
Stephenson’s Rocket: Have not played but @lalunaverde won’t shut up about it. This was one I had to buy if I ever want to experience it, so I bought it. I’ll experience it one day. The rules were uncharacteristically convoluted and I couldn’t keep track of what scored when. But still, if Knizia is a “don’t make an opinion until you’ve played five games” designer, this one may require even more exposure. SVWAG also loves this, so maybe it’ll shine.
Finally, Ingenious - this doesn’t feel like a tile layer though I guess it technically is. My thoughts are already elsewhere. Smart, serviceable game.
And the new Cascadero - we’ll see what happens when it is out. There is, after all, a point when you don’t require any more scotch even if it’s your thing.
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Like what Captain said, it’s opaque like Tigers and Pots. This and others like Modern Art got layers. They’re like ogres. They have layers.
Tip would be to tell outright that everything here in an area majority game. Stations? Area majority. Shares? Area majority. Passengers? Towns? Goods? Yep. Them too. Just take it easy when explaining the Veto. That one I struggle to teach as well.
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I’ll just close this out regarding my own contributions.
Ra / Modern Art / Medici
Modern Art may be my first Knizia? Played a friend’s copy in early 00’s and disliked it. Disliked auctions in general. I was disoriented by the non-specific valuation, lack of “did I do this right or wrong” feedback (still gets me on roll & writes, maybe an enneagram 1 wing showing itself), and finding bartering stressful in general.
Isle of Skye was the first auction game that clicked. I think the rapid fire of low-stakes auctions got me comfortable with building up a mental valuation. It was also clear to me the asymmetrical valuation between players and how to value things in between.
Business school also hammered into me the “winning a negotiation is sometimes losing” principle and I grew comfortable letting someone else win a bad deal, even if I walked home with nothing.
All to say, years later Ra has made a much better impression and is fun rather than stressful. I look forward to revisiting Modern Art soon. Medici was also a good game, which I played somewhere in the middle of all that, was easy for me to peg as the least of the three and one I won’t go back to.
Current day, I LOVE Ra.
Lost Cities / Schotten Totten / Battle Line
Lost Cities is a good game and one I think about buying back. More to play with other people than to satisfy myself. Schotten Totten is just similar and so much better, regarding that agony of knowing everything you want to play but nothing you want to play now.
Have not yet played Schotten 2. Battle Line feels identical, despite the larger deck.
Schotten Totten 1 stands here as an evergreen dueller that, given the cost, size, and quality, I’ll never be without.
Lord of the Rings
I’ve heard it said that Knizia innovated the modern co-op with his Lord of the Rings. I’ve yet to see a counterexample to this?
Lord of the Rings is one I desperately want to sell. Because it is a terrible game. Like, flip a card, talk amongst yourselves about who will discard, repeat. Repeat. Repeat.
When I came to the brink, though, I couldn’t, because it is so evocative as an experience. I think it is the way the game gives you resources up front, and then sends you through challenge after challenge, watching your resources and hope dwindle, that I really feel like I’m hustling through Helm’s Deep and Mordor. Feeling like I’m playing the book is worth it to me.
Side note, I think I also figured out how to cheese this game. If you purposefully tank Moria, the consequences aren’t so bad and you can spend the time healing hobbits and drawing cards while the bad things wash over you. That gives you enough resources to give you a decent chance to make it through the long endgame.
Separately, The Confrontation. This was a top 5 game for me for a long time. I already wrote of my love of Stratego and here it is evolved and branded. This was my first exposure to “you have 9 cards, you have to use ALL of them before picking them back up” (Cosmic Encounter innovation?) and I loved the puzzle of knowing what your opponent still held and what they might need to hold onto, as the decision space shrinks. It’s also one of my first exposures to asymmetry (well, good asymmetry). First blush the shadow is so much stronger. But you learn how the free peoples have more mobility and better tech abilities, and slightly better magic cards to make up for the weaker strength cards. Over time the two came into perfect balance and that was a delightful puzzle to solve. I still love this game though, at last play, I’ve forgotten how to win as the free peoples.
El Dorado
The beginner maps are pretty bad. No time for the deck to take shape. Later maps are good. Fan maps are excellent. My best sessions have been 2p.
My City
Hard pass on this at first. Given the explanation of the game, I could not see how it could possibly be any good.
One point for Knizia. Finally bought it at deep discount as the short playtime and legacy nature made it perfect for our date nights while we are homebound on a breastfeeding schedule. This game is NASTY.
The way the L and S tiles don’t flip, and you just know they designed the board to kick you in the nuts/ovaries with that fact repeatedly. Each new rule is so subtle and yet so dramatic. I won’t spoil anything but the tiny handful of rules come together to make a maddening puzzle every time.
This game works. I was wrong. I’m terrified of the next envelope and what headaches it will give me.
There’s nowhere for my Church again.
6 Likes
17 or 18 years ago I bought a copy of Tigris & Euphrates, hearing it was good. I couldn’t get any of my local boardgaming buddies to play because they’d either all played it to death or didn’t like that type of game. I then moved cities, and for over a decade it’s been on a friend’s basement floor. Someday I will finally play this game I bought because I heard it was good and I’d enjoyed another Knizia game.
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About a year ago I posted this:
I’ve known for a long time that “simple rules intersecting in interesting ways” describes many of my favourite games; but it’s taken me a long time to realise that this is also a description of a lot of the highly-rated “Classic Knizia” titles, and that it’s clearly a mistake that, in a sizeable games collection, I have almost none of them, as I now have a strong suspicion that I’d really enjoy most of them.
I may only have owned High Society at that point. Since then I’ve acquired:
- Ra
- Through the Desert
- Blue Lagoon
- Modern Art Card Game
I’ll be all over the next reprint of Samurai – I looked into this one enough to be very confident that it would be my jam.
I suspect Tigers & Pots is getting bought at some point, and I kinda want Babylonia too (were it not for some quibbles with the graphic design of the current version, I’d have succumbed already).
Lost Cities has been unobtainable locally since I had my epiphany. I ignored it for years while it was easily purchased for reasonable money. I’m sure it’ll be back.
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Absolutely, I played it once and really liked it but the copy I had bought used was so battered… and huge. This should be an allplay sized box not Faiyum sized. I have yet to play Pollen which I have and which is apparently a re-theme of Samurai the Dice game.
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Timely:
https://bitewinggames.com/ultimate-reiner-knizia-tier-list-ranking-161-knizia-board-games/
I was hoping to get more dirt on the really bad Knizias, we all know they are out there.
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I have played a lot of awful ones, which lowers his “batting avg” a lot compare to other designers
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I must be the only person who didn’t like The Quest for El Dorado.
EnterTheWyvern doesn’t like it, and I’m pretty confident I wouldn’t, which contributes to me not having played it.
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When I came to the brink, though, I couldn’t, because it is so evocative as an experience. I think it is the way the game gives you resources up front, and then sends you through challenge after challenge, watching your resources and hope dwindle, that I really feel like I’m hustling through Helm’s Deep and Mordor. Feeling like I’m playing the book is worth it to me.
This is totally reflective of my experience - the game should be abstract and boring, but there’s something there thematically, despite the abstraction.
It’s my first played (by a lot!) but second lowest rated Knizia (LLAMA couldn’t cut it), but I could never get rid of it as my grandparents bought it for me before I really got into boardgames and it reminds me of them.
As for the rest of my experience with Knizia, Ra is top tier, Quest just below that and then a solid selection of quality games covering Babylonia, Samurai, Tigris (though I’ve only played it online), Blue Lagoon, Lost Cities, Schotten Totten, Modern Art and Through the Desert.
Of the ones I’ve not tried, I’d love to try My City, Mille Fiori, Amun-Re, Yellow and Yangtze (or more likely the new version when it hits retail) and LOTR:The Confrontation (yeah not holding out much hope of finding this one!)
I also have no idea why he has no games in the Top 100 on BGG - Ra should definitely be there, at least!
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