Has anyone played or have an opinion about...?

Essay incoming. Sorry to dig this up again.

Core question here is Age of Innovation. I’m anticipating the holidays this year discounting this one as it’s just past the hawtness, still on the radar, but likely in stock.

Core subquestion is how does this fit into the system? And by system, here is my understanding of the Terra Mystica / Gaia Project dichotomy:

(Public opinion seems pretty evenly divided, and I know we are rife with Terra Mysticans here)

Factions: TM factions are bland and live within the system. Get a free upgrade, which other factions can pay for. Do a standard action at a discount or with alternate currency. Expand reach in this specific way.

GP factions are creative and unique and break the game rules.

This is descriptive, not a point for GP. More on that below.

Coherency vs Combotasm: TM’s parts live in parallel. You have resources, you can spend them in any one of these disconnected arenas.

GP weaves the paths together, via race powers and the tech tree, allowing more freedom to squeeze resources and extend your turn through a creative combo pathway.

So GP can be a rabbit warren of combo potential while TM is more “you have what you brought, which thing do you want to do?”

Upshot 1: The combination of unique, powerful factions and combo potential means that in GP, you are playing your faction and leveraging combos. The relative blandness of TM in both cases can be framed as a lack of distraction. TM invites you to focus on the map, on the system, and a long term plan. To focus on the other players.

Upshot 2: GP has a lot of turn zero downtime, both true turn zero when assessing factions and variable map, but also the start of each round when you work out a pathway to maximize the round. TM gets you to the game faster, as you’re living and dying off your bigger plan, not tactical opportunities, and that’s already in your head. And it’s much easier to divine what your faction should be doing as you just lean into discounts.

Player Count: TM really needs 4 to be its best. GP, due to the above, is an excellent solo and scales well at 2 and 3.

Map Tightness: I’ve never gelled to the statement that TM has a tighter map. GP’s map is much tighter, with so little real estate. You are definitely gunning for that same planet and, if you don’t get it, maybe game over. TM has more real estate.

What TM has, though, is a Map focus. In GP, once you get that planet, you’re back to the race/engine. TM allows you to partially terraform and wrestle over land before/after a piece is placed. If someone blocks you, you build around them, tunnel under them, etc. It’s fair to say that TM has more fencing and focus regarding real estate.

TM is also meaner in its own way. In GP, the fight comes at step 1, before placing a mine. You lose, it’s absolute, but you move on. TM allows you to invest time and resources into a fight before you ultimately lose, which can be more game breaking.

Ultimate Takeaway: As deducible from the split public opinion, it’s a matter of flavor. TM is a lot about the map. About the long term plan, and bringing the right resources into the round. Plan, anticipate, build, block, etc.

GP is more “euro” insofar as the game is won or lost by the engine you build, how you wield your asymmetry, and what active and passive bonuses you can synergize as you hunt through the system for value.

How Age of Innovation fits in:

Is it a happy medium, bringing the good parts of both models together? Or a vestigial limb that doesn’t do either model as well as its progenitors?

Factions: AoI has modular factions, where the institute, race, and terrain are combined at the start of game. This gives variability, a la GP, but the resulting races are characteristically bland, a la TM. Much of the narrative reads “worst of both worlds” - there is still a turn zero brain burn and teaching hurdles, but without actually interesting factions. More work for no payout.

Coherency vs Combotasm: Can’t directly speak to this, but consensus is that AoI is more generous with resources than either. It sounds like AoI rests in between it’s parents, but you just have more here, mooting the point. Resource management and squeezing income out of your engine happens without either effort, without planning or comboing.

Could be argued this is a dumbing down, or another refocus on map brinksmanship. In some ways the abundance makes it easier to play, especially for newcomers, but it maintains more rules overhead than TM so it isn’t as easy to teach.

Player Count: Variable maps to support 2-3 players. AoI delivers the full range here.

Map Tightness: Map is closer to TM with abundant spaces and room to sprawl into and around each other – room for fencing. Reports say there is a hard bottleneck, more like GP, that can lock players out if they don’t get in fast enough. I don’t know how this comes together.

Takeaway: It’s a mess? Resource richness makes it easier to play, but extra rules and mechanisms erase that by making it inaccessible to teach. TM is still easier to introduce. Factions are a worst of both worlds situation, with extra setup and planning but low payoff. The engine is a nice hybrid, but too generous so it becomes irrelevant.

So back to that question, have other people played and what did you think? Is it a happy medium, bringing the good parts of both models together? Or a vestigial limb that doesn’t do either model as well as its progenitors?

5 Likes

AoI > TM > GP

I didn’t like how linear GP’s tech tree is. And AoI’s drafting is very frontloaded, but at least it is way more interesting than the other two.

4 Likes

From what I read here, I should be selling GP and never worry about AoI.

I really liked the tracks in GP much better. They aren’t great in TM. But take these comments with lots of grains of salt because I only ever played a couple of abortive solos of GP (mistakes were made, it was one of the first automas I ever tried) and one teaching experience with @pillbox I seem to remember.

I didn’t even buy the expansion for GP.

I always liked playing the map in TM a lot. I had high hopes for the variable map of GP and felt it wasn’t tight enough. I think this is a major reason I failed to get it played.

As for recent plays (within the last few years): TM I played a while back on BGA but mostly on auto-pilot and lost badly.
GP–nothing.
AoI–never tried and likely never will. I’d rather get back to TM. I was kind of excited when it was announced… no idea where that excitement got lost.

At some point I will try the official TM Solo mode that I acquired ages ago.
But my brainspace is severely limited right now and I do not expect changes in the near term. So none of these will see my table anytime soon.

All these words to let you know I can’t really comment much on your analysis.

3 Likes

I didn’t want to play GP because that garish plastic is ugly. TM is OK. AoI I’ve not even seen yet.

4 Likes

Plastic is very SciFi :melting_face:

4 Likes

How many times have you played AoI? Does it feel like a hybrid, or like TM with a decade of lessons learned applied?

The TM and GP opinions are pretty well laid out, and I can corroborate from experience. AoI is sparsely reviewed and I’m grasping at straws. I wouldn’t form an AoI opinion from my analysis!

And I’m surprised, I would have pegged you for someone who enjoys GP. It’s often compared to Revive, with the factions and resource comboing. And it has a feel more like Everdell, Arnak, etc with the round extensions.

2 Likes

The round extensions are not the defining element for these games or what I enjoy about Revive, Everdell, Arnak or Terra Mystica. On my shelves the closest relative to TM is Spirit Island.

  • Growing your player board
  • Good map play
  • Variable player powers.

SI loses the tracks and the hexagons and replaces them with tags and a huge stack of cards. It’s like T-Mystica and T-Mars had a baby. And now the baby is all grown up with its own expansions :smiley:

3 Likes

7 times. AoI feels like base game TM but with some redesign decisions. The innovation tiles and the drafting makes it more puzzle optimisation (of that seed) because now every set up is different. Caters to the taste of modern hobbyist gamers

2 Likes

I own AoI, and I’m starting to regret spending so much money on it. I’m finding it much harder to get to the table compared to TM or GP.
The problem is it’s TM with everything randomised at the start and some extra rules. I’m done with TM so thought this would be perfect, but it just feels like TM yet twice as long. More options, more rules to explain, an excrutiatingly long setup and pack down, but the same core decisions as TM. I’ve bought a inlay to help with this, but I’m finding it doesn’t hold a candle to games I got at the same time such as Beyond the Sun and La Granja.

Honestly, want to play it again soon just so I can confirm in my head that I want to sell it. I’ll keep GP though, that’s sufficiently different to warrant staying.

4 Likes

Ah, just when we were approaching something like consensus. But seriously, these are the two general viewpoints. Here, they have a bit more detail and context so I can understand if I would like to ad AoI, TM, or neither.

I currently have GP and Clans of Caledonia.

2 Likes

I really like this. I think it’s maybe flawed around the contracts being so much of the end game scoring but I find it always so fun to play. Every action is pleasing and puzzling how to spend your money each round to have more next and so on. Classic euro satisfaction. Chuck in a rudimentary market with adjusting prices and a free production round. All just yummy and I think more accessible and a faster play than TM. Honestly I’m considering flicking TM but Clans just hasn’t crossed my mind for cull as I just find it pleasing.

3 Likes

I played Clans of Caledonia and went into thinking I was going to love the game. I found it to be good (but not great) and spent a lot of my time at the table with it fleshing out the narrative of the story. After playing it the once, I removed it from my wishlist, but would absolutely return to it if someone put it on my table.

I own GP but haven’t yet played a game; despite @yashima kindly providing a The Teach for it a few years back.


A bunch of nonsense I wrote about it back then

You emerge from the cellar pulling a cask of whiskey on a hand-truck behind you.

A nondescript figure apporaches you. “That is some outstanding whiskey you have there! Aging it in a cellar, genius! Why don’t all whiskey distilleries do that?” they ask rhetorically as they reach into their sporran/purse (this is a vague narrative, now isn’t it!) and hands you a few coins. “Say, how long has that cask been down there?” asks the unnamed person.

“Well, putting casks of whiskey in a cellar is tricky to do, you know,” you respond, fearing you may already be revealing too much of your clan’s secrets to great whiskey; if the other clans knew cellars and time were the age old secret to the highly regarded whiskey of Clan McKenzie, certainly strangers would stop handing over coins at just the sight of one of these dusty casks from the basement. “Oh, quite a while, I’d say. At least two turns,” you respond.

The stranger’s jaw drops in amazement. “Two turns!? Splendid!” he or she responds and grabs another handful of coins and shovels them into your waiting hands. “I sure can’t wait until you decide to sell that whiskey. Why, it’ll be just magnificent!” they say before wandering off to talk to a man about buying cheese at unreasonable prices.

5 Likes

Regarding Age of Innovation, it seems like there are two camps.

TM is pure and AoI is faff.
TM is tired/jagged and AoI is refined/polished.

No way to tell which I’ll be without playing both a couple times.

It’s an investment.

On Caledonia, I thought it’d be an easy cull. But it just makes me happy every time I play it.

5 Likes

Rise&Fall

A friend of mine loves this. I think it sounds Splitter esque and I don’t know if it’s going to be too mean for me.

Sounds very interesting and I liked the gameplay of Archipelago even though the theme wasn’t for me.

I certainly don’t have anything else like it

2 Likes

Ooh - you have reminded me how much I like Archipelago! And I haven’t played it for ages. Must fix that.

(I rather enjoy its theme of ‘colonial powers are exploitative self-interested so-and-so’s.’)

3 Likes

I’m still waiting for Rise and Fall to show up in retail. I love the idea of Archipelago but man, it’s always a rough ride. And hated the traitor so much (because it skews the game so much) that I removed it.

3 Likes

Oh, yeah, take the traitor out. No need for it at all!

3 Likes

Not sure if this is the right thread - do we have a recommendation request thread? I can’t see one but please feel free to move it there if we do.

My son (10) is currently hugely into Greek mythology in general and deities in particular, courtesy of Rick Riordan. Are there any games with heavy Greek mythology themes? Ideally ones with Greek Gods doing powerful smashy God things to towns or each other.

4 Likes

I’m looking at Mythic Battles: Pantheon… anyone know it?

3 Likes

Cyclades is pretty good, and not super complicated.

Santorini was too light for my tastes, but it is very popular.

Orichalam is on discount, but was well-reviewed. I think it just has an ugly cover.

4 Likes