Continuing this journey, this week it is epic games. I’m thinking in terms of 2.5 hours plus, and the kind of game where you might plan ahead, hand pick who is at the table, and set aside an afternoon.
Generally speaking, just the biggest of your collection in terms of scope, which usually means time but maybe also table space or rules space.
The two subcategories would be Epic: Duel (e.g., Rebellion, War of the Ring) and Epic: Everything Else (e.g. Twilight Imperium, Dune).
What have you included in your collection (or highlights) in these categories?
What would your pantheon be? The best/permanent entries for you?
How important are these categories to your gaming life? General thoughts?
I used to have epic game nights once upon a time when I was younger when a single game might last from 6pm to midnight and it would make us happy to play for so long. I have fond memories of City of Chaos and yet I sold it on a couple of years ago. I even have fond memories of Arkham Horror …
The most epic game that will occasionally grace my table (and once managed to get to an impressive 15 hours over 3 nights) is Leaving Earth.
Robo Rally is also allowed to go on forever and will only ever get cut short when we run out of time (it is never an if these days sadly). Epic robot mayhem is epic though. The amount of epic mostly depends on the size of the map and bigger is not necessarily better.
I have epic plans for an epic game of Firefly preceded by a rewatch of the show of course. But sadly to get the players I want on that table to that table requires epic coordination abilities.
A game that always feels epic no matter the play time for me is Spirit Island. Sadly, that might be the reason I haven‘t managed to get it played in quite some time because I just don‘t have the brain space right now.
Games in my collection that could make for an epic experience and run all night and not just because of the teach either (that as well usually) in theory:
John Company
Weimar
18DO
Dune
Blood on the Clocktower
edit: how could I forget Mage Knight
And then there are games that just run long with higher player counts. When SETI ran over 3 hours that qualified as an epic disaster more or less.
In short my table prefers shorter fare that is easily taught these days, but I haven‘t given up on it.
I love epic games. Probably my preferred way to play a game. Having all that time and space to have something really build up then execute several big plays is a joy.
When i was younger sitting down for big social epics like Napoleon in Europe really drew me in. Playing 40k the highlights for me were often multi player epics that would take up to days to play out. Sadly age makes them harder to do now.
I like 18xx for the whole unfolding arc. I understand why @lalunaverde is less fussed in the engineering games but I’m happy to lose them slowly with less decisions as i like the map building the unfolding alt history and the social around a table time. When the games are a little less cut throat i find playing to win matters less and the story of the game is what I take away. LLV might find this odd with how cutthroat our group plays and how aggro we like games but it’s not always everything. Don’t get me wrong, I love an 1830’s branch horrible 18xx with backstabbing and share manipulation and bankruptcy too. If they can be epic with the back and forth and sharp elbows around tragic track and messing with priority to ruin someone’s day I’m all in too. Sometimes though the other side calls.
I really enjoyed our recent plays of Triumph and Tragedy and that is very epic. However I don’t think I love it. Something about the balance I haven’t figured out yet but I do worry there’s something a bit rote and too swingy with the cards. I think a little more freedom to do grand strategic choices and grand tactical ones would suit me more. I’d look for a wargame I like more but sadly I think my epic days night be behind me. Kids, career and age based tiredness just don’t seem to facilitate days gaming.
I generally prefer slow build ups. While I think Race for the Galaxy does it well I can’t think of an other example but I generally dislike games where players set the game timer and there’s a promise of some engine building but actually racing through quickly is what the games about. I often want to explore the space and I want the good engine. I think epic games can give you that.
Ok so I think one of my powers is to make almost any mid-weight game turn into an epic…
I’ve played Brass Birmingham twice and both times took >4 hours not including the teach. Pax Pamir took about the same with my family at only 3 players. Lowlands also took ~4. Even Wingspan easily takes >2. Latest addition to games-that-seem-to-take-way-longer-than-they-should is Molly House which I played at the weekend, although I could see that getting much shorter after more plays.
I have a copy of John Company that I’d love to play a full game of, and I bought a copy of Game of Thrones 2nd Edition that I was planning a session of in 2020 before the pandemic happened… One day?
I think Blood on the Clocktower generally doesn’t need to run for so long but in my mind still fits into the “epic” genre since it’s such a spectacle, and you can easily fill a day with multiple rounds.
I think personally I really like a long game. They feel meaningful and I like having the memory. It’s just difficult when games drag on often if others would rather they be over quickly so I tend to play lighter games more often.
(I have multiple Splotter games on my wish list, they’re just what appeals to me at the moment)
I also love epic games, and at 2.5 hours plus, even many of my games that I don’t think of as “epic” are going to qualify, especially with infrequent play.
But the games that first come to mind, as the ones that leave me frazzled and exhausted by the time they end, are Roads & Boats and Mage Knight, and I love them both.
Once it goes beyond 2.5 hours, it becomes 18xx and Splotter territory. As in, I don’t see the point of playing epic games unless they fill in a niche that isn’t covered by the former two. These two categories are just top of the line when it comes to depth.
Pantheon, eh?
1830
The Old Prince
1817 (and 18USA which is a spinoff)
1828
1860: Isle of Wight
1870: Trans-Mississippi
Indonesia
Mage Knight (caveat - only played this once with Benkyo)
Through the Ages
War of the Ring
Napoleon’s Triumph
High Frontier 4 All
Diplomacy
Maybe Triumph and Tragedy and Roads and Boats if I played them enough. Dune, Maria, and Friedrich are also pontential items
So in order to compete, they have to do something different. Mage Knight and Napoleon’s Triumph manage to do this. High Frontier 4 All and War of the Ring are also there as they provide heavy thematic storytelling. Indeed, that I really idgaf when we are tallying up points on High Frontier. We settled the solar system together and that’s enough for me.
Here I Stand didn’t made it. It’s suppose to be a thematic game, but the whole thing is so gamey. As Spain+Holy Roman Empire, you are heavily nudged to keep exploring the New World while keeping Lutheranism at bay. As France, you are heavily nudged to keep building chateaus. The ludo-narrative is so linear!
Time duration doesn’t do anything to me when it comes to “epicness”. The games that feel epic to me has to present something epic with its gameplay. Making me play a shit game for 8 hours doesn’t make it feel “epic”, it just makes me cranky. Indeed, with full sincerity, every time I finish playing these games, I always end up having an introspection on how I should interact with this hobby. You made me sit down and reevaluate my life.
Sadly I own a number of Epic games, but have played very few of them. I think I just like the idea that someday I might be able to play them.
Duel:
SW: Rebellion
War of the Ring
Stronghold: Undead
Other:
Twilight Imperium 4th*
Dune
Nemesis*
Firefly: the Game*
Fury of Dracula (3rd/4th)*
A Game of Thrones 2nd Ed^
Kemet: Blood and Sand
Unfathomable
Mansions of Madness 2nd Ed*
Fortune and Glory
Mage Knight
Fief: France 1429
Spirit Island*
[* means my copy has been played. ^ means I have played someone else’s copy]
These might not all count as “Epic”, but each takes over two hours (at least the way my friends and I play) and they would certainly be considered the main event of a gaming day. I tend to reserve such games for my birthday, especially if we can get a table at my FLGS, as then there are no kids demanding our attention. This is how Nemesis got played a couple of years ago.
I totally forgot Mage Knight in my list above. I really need to play that again.
Also I have one of the most epic games I ever played once as a preorder: Die Macher.
The story goes like this: we were playing at a student run (game) pub from 6 pm until I don’t know how long. It was '97 or '98 definitely pre-mobile phone ownership. I was supposed to be home by midnight because while studying at university I was still living at home and it was a Monday night and math classes were starting at 8 the next morning… in any case… we ran the German parliament and it was incredibly fascinating and so epic I totally forgot the time. I don’t remember much else except I got home around 2am having had to walk the last 2km because obviously busses don’t run after midnight… my mom was waiting at the top of the stairs and began yelling at me the moment I opened the frontdoor…
A very memorable end to a very memorable game.
I went to SPIEL that year (I think for the first time) and hunted for both Die Macher and Robo Rally but I never managed to find either until they were both reprinted in the early 00s. I replaced the Avalon Hill RR with the new anniversary edition and I got rid of my old Die Macher years ago but have the reprint of the Spielworxx edition on preorder
PS: I also omitted my Splotter games from my list at top because they are quite unlikely to get played until I retire. I still want that Antiquity reprint though (not that they have announced anything. But if I keep yelling into the void one day they will)
1.) @EnterTheWyvern usually ask me what dates I’m free this month. I list dates when I’m free.
2..) We decide what day
3.) We decide what game (hardest part)
4.) Hope none of us get sick that week
With club members, I ask on the group chat about this game to play and it has to be on a Saturday games session. Enthusiasm will depending on the game
The games that I think of as Epic in the sense of “I will try to prearrange a session of this rather than casually propose it during a meeting” are:
Firefly
Xia
Star Trek Ascendancy
and if I still owned Twilight Imperium it would be another. Maybe to some extent Imperium as well, though that feels like a smaller game (and I’ve sometimes played it several times in a day, which I wouldn’t with the first three). Spirit island similarly. And A Touch of Evil, which again can be quite long but doesn’t feel Epic to me.
I don’t think I have any Epic Duel games; I play a bit of Ashes, Riftforce, Compile, and occasionally Netrunner, but none of those is Huge.
In spite of my best efforts at evangelism, nobody local is sufficiently into Leaving Earth for me to get to play that multiplayer.
I think when (if?) I ever get round to playing the Robinson Crusoe Voyage of the Beagle campaign expansion (alone - nobody tends to want to play the base game, never mind a lengthy expansion campaign), that’ll be the most epic thing I have in my collection.
Campaigny things probably don’t really count for this, but it’s the closest I’ve got!
