Vast is a lot more asymmetric, and I thought it was harder to learn and teach than Root.
I just looked up the SUSD review of Root, and found my reaction to the start of the explanation:
0:50 weāre all forest animals! itās a cute animal theme!
1:05 the forest is full of cats.
1:20 the cats haveā¦ sawmillsā¦ WTF is this theme?!
Having since played the game (albeit never as the cats), I still donāt know why they have sawmills.
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I havenāt read through this entire thread yet but I think @Captbnut and I have the same things to say.
His designs are fascinating. His themes are unique. His mechanics are innovative. His asymmetry is clever. His games tell stories, which is fun.
At the same time, Iāve never loved one. Cap said āfragileā and I think that is right. My problem is that Iāve never played a balanced game. All of my sessions have had one or more experienced players and one or more newbies and the session tends to fall apart. I think if you could get a group of people to all start at the same point, play together, develop a meta together, learn together, you would find something truly beautiful emerge. And Iām guessing thatās why many people love these, theyāve gotten to experience the games that way.
Root with imbalanced experience levels does become kingmaking and an exercise in frustration as you can see what is happening but arenāt in a position to engage with it, and you have to choose between quarterbacking, or something else. Pax Pamir tends to turn into bad games of Innovation, with an experienced player setting up a dominant position and then rushing the game to milk that position for an early victory. Iāve played Pax enough to be on both sides of that, watching the game roll over me so fast I canāt grab anything as it goes away, and later finding myself grabbing a quick two or three cards and finding myself in an unassailable position of dominance through the next couple of checks. Neither scenario was very interesting.
My best session was with three newbies (all on their second game). I quietly committed to play as a spectator. I got some good cards, made sure I had enough tribes and faction influence to be part of the equation but remained passive, letting them set the pace and choose when the dominance check got triggered. I finally got to see the tug of war as the three of them rushed for board position, then slowed way down to keep the dominance check high in the market, each trying to end their turn on top but unable to stay on top until they could buy the check on their next turn. I think thatās the game Iāve been looking for.
Iām holding onto Pamir because Iāve gotten glimpses of what it could be and I hope to navigate the fragility to get the game to a beautiful state one day. I have JoCo which I think I just want to experience an then pass on. Root is still out there as a question mark, but I havenāt been motivated to put in the time to learn multiple factions and try to find the game there that other people love.
Still, as it started, I"m glad Cole exists. Thereās nothing else like wehrligig and all his games are fascinating to study, even if you donāt find your way through the right door to unlock the game.
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Late to the topic, but wanted to jump in.
Iāve only skimmed what most people have said so far (because free time is scarce and fleeting when you have a newborn child).
I agree that Cole Wehrleās games rely on other players to maintain balance; thatās something that he seems to lean into as though it were a spectacular feature, rather than a flaw that most other game designers would try to work out ā but thereās something inherently poetic, perhaps, about that sort of game design; unfortunately, it means that games played with a mix of experience levels will be uneven and, likely, unsatisfying. It would be much more appropriate, then, for these games of his to have a core gaming group that can meet and regularly explore those spaces, but in a way to maintain skill and experience parity across the group.
I own Root (and all, as of now, expansions and possibly all the currently and formerly available accessories), but Iāve only recently started exploring it; I had been holding it back on my shelf, waiting for a time to get it to the table with some friends of mine that are particularly good at Dudes On A Map type of gamesā¦ but eventually I relented and started exploring the solo options.
Itās definitely something that I intend to keep exploring, but it makes me wary of a future time when Iām trying to get it played multiplayer and struggling with unequal experience levels around the table.
I also own John Company 2. It seems to me to be a very interesting game that blends several of my favorite gaming mechanisms. Iāll probably explore it solo, but Iāve been resisting because, unlike seemingly everyone else in the world, I find Ricky Royals videos nigh impossible to watch ā itās worse than watching a Rahdo video.
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